A crazy idea to build a very special Thingiverse alternative. What do you think?

[Icey]

Interesting concept, but it depends on the fee structure. I get the for profit thing, but only to the point when it gets in the way of the sharing nature that thingiverse and some others provide.

I understand the customizable nature of the file, but most times I use the stl as-is, albeit some scaling within Cura. I’ve learned about 3D by taking advantage of the free files and spent my time buying and understanding my printer, learning the various slicers and the range of plastics available for printing.

That said I would support a site that focused more on gadgets and parts to support homes, vehicles, machines and activities. Perhaps organized by function: Home Repair, Automotive (including classic vehicles), Hobbies like fishing, photography, etc. The comic/anime characters are cool, but for me I’ve been using my printer to create tools & gadgets as well as make replacement or enhancement parts for appliances, automotive and home repair.

it would be great to create a replacement bezel for a home appliance and be able to make some money on it.

I envision a future where an additive printer or CNC comes with every home along with a set of prints for replacement parts that the homeowner makes themselves…

[Ender5r]

@Icey

I envision a future where an additive printer or CNC comes with every home along with a set of prints for replacement parts that the homeowner makes themselves…

Interesting vision, but I don’t see it happening. Most homeowners aren’t interested actually. Besides, I suspect future homes will come with robotic devices that will look after repairs. 'Course, it’s possible the robotic devices will include some sort of apparatus to make replacement parts. I certainly won’t be around to see it, but I could see it happening.

[ParaPedro]

Just another thought that may be worth looking at.
You might be able to publish 3D photos of your models for people to assess and browse and see if it fits their needs, and then if they want the .stl or raw files a small fee could be applied.

[Ender5r]

I’ve been meaning to post that the site would need a rating system, a way for people to score models from 1 to 10 for example. It’s something I’ve noticed is missing from thingiverse and some other sites I’ve visited. In fact, there could be 2 ratings: 1 for just viewers of the model and a 2nd for people who actually bought the model.

[FrancescoF]

I just saw the video on youtube, and I agree with what you say. So much so that I have already built a beta version of the website you describe. ?

Hopefully I can contribute to this discussion by sharing my experience.
Many comments here talk about the business model, I think this hits the nail on the head.
I’ve developed (my version of) what you describe and it has been a lot of fun, so I’ve done it out of passion. But boy finding a good business model is hard! I want to make it available to as many people as possible, so there is no paywall. Ads might be a revenue model, but I think that this would ruin the experience, so there aren’t any. I did set up a “buy me a coffe” page for donations, and to my delight, some people donated. However, the total donation over the summer was about 100$, so it would be hard to support a team on that…

Like other comments suggested, I’ve decided to let people download the openSCAD (if they want). Otherwise they can just download the stl, and most of them did (I don’t have the number off the top of my head, but I can provide them if you want).

Thanks for your video, it’s a very interesting topic. If you/anyone would like to collaborate, please get in touch. ?
The project is called SOL75, you can try it for free at www.sol75.com (to get full access, use the code “luckyMe”).

[Ender5r]

Nice work @FrancescoF. Perhaps you and @Irv_Shapiro can have a meeting of the minds.

[MaStr]

Dear Irv, dear all,

I know I’m quite late to the discussion as @Irv_Shapiro has already started with the realisation of the customizer. Nevertheless I’d like to add my 2ct from my product management background.

I would see a niche for such a website in the 3D printing universe.
The thingyverse customizer is down with no signs of this changing soon and no alternatives, except learning OpenSCAN.
3D-printing is growing and getting still more mainstream. There is a demand for practical prints and customisable prints.
There must be a customer base out there waiting to be served.

I would imagine a site based on two complementary pillars. I’ll call them “basic” and “premium” for now.

The Basic
Allows to search thingyverse for OpenSCAD files (and possible other customisable models, dnk if there are any).
Those files are pulled in from thingyverse as is and can be customised with an easy to use customiser incl. a preview. Parameters can be saved.
Then can be added to a rendering queue and final .stl downloaded.

Monetization:
When adding to the rendering queue the user has to watch an advertising video. Similar to those in simple mobile phone games or on some news websites before watching video content. This will not bring in a lot of money, but it should be enough to pay for the hosting and processing of the rendering. The money stays with the platform.
This kind of “payment” has a very low entry barrier for the user. He/she can try it without any risks. He is only targeted with ads when he has a high motivation to watch, because he wants the stl. He is waiting for the .stl anyway. Only if the ad is watched completely he’ll get the resulting .stl.
Advertising infrastructure for this business model already exists.

The Premium
In the premium area the user will find selected high quality customizable models. These models are checked for usability and printability. They have a good documentation and clear naming of the variables.Simply very good models. These models are uploaded by the creators.The source code is not accessible to the user. Again it can be customized, parameters saved etc.

Monetization:
Differently from Basic, now there is a price for the stl. Before adding to the rendering queue the user pays e.g. via PayPal or credit card.
The price is set by the creator. This fosters competition amongst creators. The creator and the platform share the revenue, compare youtube. 30/70 or 50%/50% or other, to be defined. Creators are thereby incentivized to make good models. For many (most?) applications there are several solutions already in thingyverse but it’s a pain to find the good ones. This is what the platform will do for the user. And the user will be willing to pay for that.
Ideally those models are not to be found anywhere else.

Success factors:
1)The user must be able to browse the models, basic and premium, and play with the customizer before having to register. Keep the entry barrier as low as possible. User need to be able to assess the quality of the models and the usability of the customizer before having to register. The incentive to register are features, like collecting models, saving parameters etc. Of course before rendering a registration is necessary.

2. Stay away from subscriptions. They are a huge deterrent to users especially in the beginning when a site is not known yet.
   Imagine you would need to pay for a subscription to YouTube without knowing what’s in it.

3. The usability of the site and especially the customizer needs to be really good. Ideally even superior to using the OpenSCAD software.

4. A good relationshio with thingyverse need to be maintained. Respect their terms and condition. Possibly don’t use their non-SCAD models as to be no competition, but a partner.

5. Contribute to the OpenSCAD community. It’s the basis of this model.

Such a platform will need up front investment, especially for the creation of the site and, do not underestimate, manpower to curate the premium, contact model programmers, advertise the site etc. This is no different from all the other internet platforms that made it to be big.
But it would have a chance to become a big player in the 3dprinting world and make money in the long run.

As I said, those are just my 2ct from being around the internet economy for more than 20 years.

Let’s discuss!

[Ender5r]

Good analysis @MaStr. It reads like many proposals I’ve read (and wrote) before retiring. I particularly agree with the “no subscription” observation.

[irvshapiro-drvax]

@MaStr Thank you. Your analysis and the time you took to present your thoughts are appreciated. I will take some time to digest your point of view, but based on my first read I agree an opportunity exists to differentiate in this market.

You will see many of our thoughts align.

The “basics” are mostly complete. Check out https://models.makewithtech.com. I have been careful to respect Thingiverse and not allow users to download non-OpenSCAD models from the “models” site. Instead, I redirect them to Thingiverse. Just this week, I added the ability to save and retrieve parameters.

I intend to keep the search and customizer capabilities free.

Long term, the goal is to build a two-sided market. I started with Thingiverse models since your need inventory initially to attract users. My long-term goal is to provide models from various sources, including locally uploaded and shared models. I intend to implement uploaded model storage and sharing in the next major release.

I am willing to support this site without monetization for many months. In terms of monetization, I am still on the fence about strategy. Most companies, including YouTube, are moving towards subscriptions because it aligns the interests of the user with the vendor. YouTube has multiple revenue streams, including subscriptions if you do not want to see ads. This is a possible approach.

My current thinking is to keep search and customization free forever and put subscriptions in front of “convenience” features. So, for example, you can use the customizer on all “free” models without a subscription, but if you want to save parameters sets, you need to be a subscriber.

The strategy behind the two-sided marketplace with payments going to creators may be more straightforward. Basically, you can search for and customize “paid” models and view them onscreen, but you need to pay the creator to download the STL file. The challenge here is the customer that pays for a model, downloads it, and then wants their money back. A potential approach is to support limited refunds, where if you ask for refunds more often than X times, you get banned from selecting paid models.

Once again, thank you for your professionally presented thoughts. This is a process, and I am genuinely interested in the communities ideas.

Irv

[Ender5r]

@Irv_Shapiro, in my last post I stated how I agree with the “no subscription” approach. What I didn’t say is, I agree with that view regarding older people (over 40). I don’t have a feel for the younger crowd, which is why I didn’t comment about them. However, it could well be that people under 40, and particularly under 30, have the reverse feeling about subscriptions. I see ads on TV about apps that help people cancel unwanted subscriptions, and I wonder who could be using those apps. I can only think it must be younger people.

[irvshapiro-drvax]

@ParaPedro @CoreyPDX @akc @Lowteck @Ender5r and every else that is sharing thoughts about how to support the site. Over the next two weeks, I hope to release an update that will allow people to upload and share OpenSCAD models. I am thinking of limiting the model upload and sharing to OpenSCAD along with images and STL files produced with the OpenSCAD script. This is to differentiate from Thingiverse and others. What are your thoughts about this limitation?

[MaStr]

Dear Irv, dear all,
Yes, I’d agree with focussing on the OpenSCAD files. That’s THE way to differentiate from Thingyverse and the niche to grow in.

A key question that needs a good answer is the differentiation between models.MWT and thingyverse in regards to OpenSCAD:
To be specific, for the creator of an OpenSCAD model, what motivates me to share on models.MWT and not on thingyverse?
Is it only the working customiser?

As a creator I want to be “seen”, and publish to a big audience. Thingyverse is (still) more popular.
I want to get recognition for my work. Thingyverse has the “tip designer” feature.
I want my work to be in an environment with other high quality models.

I think those point need adressing.
Once the site is in a state with all the key features working, it needs promotion. Irv is doing a great job moving it forward but I think a few things are still missing.

Especially in the Open SCAD community it needs to be known to get good models on board.
There are some models on Thingyverse that need the customiser and are basically unusable without it. E.g. the snowflake machine Thing ID: 1159436.
It could be a community effort to find those and post in the comments of the model in thingyverse to use it through model.MWT.
Plus someone on behalf of MWT could contact the designer and suggest to move it to MWT.

We need some method of getting some money to the designers. Either by more complex options discussed or by a simple “tip designer” or "buy me a coffee ".

[Lowteck]

Are you saying upload to Thingiverse, or a new database you maintain. Thingiverse is a massive database which seems to have millions of files and some for laser etching/cutting. I have seen other databases which have specialized in some form. So, if you are uploading to Thingiverse, then there is no way except masses of people potentially seeing the file. There would not be a way to guarantee the originator of any donations. If you are talking about a new database, then it would take a long time for the database to get big enough to draw people other that members of “MadeWithTech”. Then it goes back to “donate me a cup of coffee” I have in Thingiverse, marked over a hundred files for quick download, it also made for easier searches. But, as far as how many I have downloaded, that is less than 2 dozen, of which less that a dozen have been printed. None of the others have been tipped. Some of the downloads, after being printed I found less than useful. I keep telling myself, after I get caught up on bills I will go to the favorite ones and tip. With the situation money keeps getting tighter. Good intentions do not pay the piper!
That is why I originally suggested a subscription fee, downloads could count pennys towards the authors, in addition to voluntary donations. It would also go towards your support of the sites also.

[irvshapiro-drvax]

Wow. Thank you, everyone—for all your valuable thoughts. I’m progressing on the models @ makewithtech local repository and expect to release it as an “experimental” feature in 7-10 days. Initially, all models will be public, with source code, a sample STL, and an image. Based on everyone’s thoughts, I am also looking into a GitHub-like model where anyone can upload and share models with everyone, that is to say, public models. You would pay an annual fee if you want a private model repository, maybe for a company, etc. I am also leaning towards putting advanced customization features, such as the ability to save and retrieve customizer parameters behind the subscription.

In this version of a rapidly evolving vision, which will change ten more times at least, all Thingiverse and local public models are available to everyone with the openSCAD source code. Advanced features to facilitate private repositories, saving customizer parameters, and additional storage will be behind the subscription.

Finally, I think it is essential to support a way for model creators to earn money if they want to. This is consistent with viewing OpenSCAD as a programming language. For example, Python is OpenSource, but many people sell Python modules and build for-profit sites with Python.

After completing the model repository I hope to spend some time on making the customizer even more powerful by supporting the ability to upload external modules and fonts. This feature will be tricky but I think it is possible.

Live customizer previews are also on the list, but this will take a lot of time as I have to benchmark a number of architectures which include web assembly and fast AWS Lamda servers just for creating 2d previews.

As always I look forward to everyone’s comments.

P.S. I agree with @Ender5r that most people will in fact not even look at the source code but will just use the customizer.

[irvshapiro-drvax]

[SIZE=24px]Very Exciting Announcement[/SIZE]

Ok folks. We are getting close to a minimal viable product with sufficient features to attract creators interested in distributing models.

I am excited to announce an OPEN beta test. Models @ MakeWithTech now provides the ability to upload and share models directly on the MakeWithTech platform. This initial build is available at:

[SIZE=16px]https://test.makewithtech.com[/SIZE]

While some companies select a limited number of “early testers,” I will take a page from Microsoft, even though I am a Mac/Apple fanboy. This and all future builds will have the ability for users (people that have created FREE accounts) to opt into using “experimental features.”

[B]Just head over to the Account page, and after creating an account, check the experimental feature tab.

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“custom”,“height”:“493”,“title”:“Screen Shot 2022-04-28 at 7.57.59 PM.png”,“width”:“609”,“data-attachmentid”:15009}[/ATTACH][/B]

Once you do this and refresh your browser, you will see the following new features:

• The home page has been redesigned to support selecting to search Thingiverse or MakeWithTech

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“custom”,“height”:“437”,“title”:“Screen Shot 2022-04-28 at 7.44.46 PM.png”,“width”:“600”,“data-attachmentid”:15010}[/ATTACH]

• There are two new top navigation menu options (they look like clouds).
• One is used to upload and share a model stored at MakeWithTech

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“custom”,“height”:“486”,“title”:“Screen Shot 2022-04-28 at 7.59.30 PM.png”,“width”:“600”,“data-attachmentid”:15011}[/ATTACH]

• The second is use to search for, view, customize or delete models from MakeWithTech

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“custom”,“height”:“486”,“title”:“Screen Shot 2022-04-28 at 7.57.39 PM.png”,“width”:“600”,“data-attachmentid”:15012}[/ATTACH]

• Only the creator of a model can delete their models
• The search capability returns up to 100 models and searches the title, description, model ID, and tags fields
• Right now, tags are all single words.
• Every shared model must have an OpenSCAD and image file and optionally can have a single STL file
• Every model creator must select a “Creative Commons” or “Public Domain” license for their models.

Some background. I am not trying to compete with Thingiverse, Creality Cloud, or Printables (the new name for the Prusa model collection). Instead, I am trying to emphasize the power of printing customized models on 3d printers. That is why the local repository is only for OpenSCAD models as of now and perhaps other customizable formats in the future.

So, if you know of any OpenSCAD designers interested in sharing models on a platform with a working customizer that is actively under development, please point them toward this site.

Please note that models uploaded to this site WILL NOT be available on the production site (models.makewithtech.com) once this code goes into general “experimental feature” release in about a week.

Feel free to share ALL of your thoughts. I am very thick-skinned, having worked in the SW industry for over 40 years, and I want all of your observations.

At the same time, please note that we are still early in the process and expect this site to evolve over the next year or more rapidly.

Irv

[irvshapiro-drvax]

This post is duplicated in another forum to ensure folks interested in this topic have an opportunity to see it. I will also be inviting forum members to participate via direct email.

As a member of the MakeWithTech forum, I am offering you an early opportunity to earn money creating 3d printer models. Over the next couple of weeks, I will promote a new set of features on the Models @ MakeWithTech (https://models.makewithtech.com) site. Creators now can upload and share 3d printer models created in OpenSCAD and earn money in two ways.

First, the site is integrated with Buy Me a Coffee (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/). Set up an account on Buy Me a Coffee and enter your I.D. into your Models @ MakeWithTech account profile. Then anytime a user downloads a model from the results page, they will have an opportunity to tip you via the Buy Me a Coffee widget.

Second, I will pay cash for the first 150 models uploaded and accepted on the site. Earn $10 for your first upload, $20 for your second, $30 for your third, and then $10 for each upload after three. Payments are limited to 20 models per creator. This program will continue until 150 models are live on the site. The MakeWithTech team reserves the right to reject any models for any reason. All models must include a license for, at a minimum free non-commercial use.

Payments for models will be made via PayPal exclusively by the end of July.

Ready to participate. Head over the https://models.makewithtech.com. Create a completely free account. Select the “try experimental features” flag on the account page and refresh your page.

Click on the outlined cloud icon in the top menu bar to share a model. Next, click on the solid cloud icon to search for models at MakeWithTech.

Thanks for your time, and let’s learn together and make money together.

Irv

P.S. Feel free to share this promotion with anyone in the 3d printer community.

[Geit]

This is a nice idea to motivate people to release their models. Similar like prusa printers does with their spool meter stuff, but yours is with a more short term results and so yours is for sure more motivating.

I hope this delivers proper functional models and not just some two circles and an extrude or name plates in different shapes, to get easy money.

To bad my brain starts hurting, when programming 3d models. I therefor stick with FreeCAD

I tested your search engine earlier today and it is so simple and clean. I like it a lot and wished more website would go this route. Maybe add a search option to find stuff by author or content (description texts), but that is really only nitpicking. Maybe ghost/darken and deactivate the page next/prev gadgets, instead of leading to an empty page.

But overall: Great job!