Need Help with Modifying files

[Ender5r]

OK, so many things I find wrong in that post.

@Geit

a) was a “free license” of a company, which always fires back at some point and already did with this application, twice.

No, it does not always fire back. And, no, F360 did not already fire back twice. The point being, it does what I need it to do. What Autodesk took away were things I wasn’t using anyway, which is what Autodesk actually said when they changed the license.

@Geit

Closed source software more than open source.

Disagree. The number of abandoned open source projects is legion. In fact, I think open source is more vulnerable. The vast majority of projects are really developed & supported by only 1 person (or a very few people). Innevitably, that person gets tired of supporting the project, or things change in their life, and the project gets abandoned.

@Geit

A bonus of open source.

Again, disagree. I think corporations make a greater effort to give customers what they want, and to fix issues more promptly. Open Source devs often won’t give users (remember, they’re not customers, so no financial incentive) what they want because they don’t find it interesting, or they don’t feel they have the skills to do it, or they “just don’t fee like it”.

@Geit

At one point in the future Fusion will cut a feature you want and you will “blackmailed” by the company in multiple ways. Pay money or stay with just.Step files.

Maybe, maybe not. There really is no way to know. And I wouldn’t call it blackmail. Companies (anyone really) has the right to change their program and/or terms of service. Customers are then entitled to accept or reject those changes.

@Geit

Pay money to get the features you want and more important: Pay money to keep the experience you build up over time. The latter is key here. They want young people to lean software, so when they get into companies, the companies will pay for software they need for even more money. The free community, which provided bug reports and did all the expensive testing for free, is left on the side walk in the future.

This is a little confusing. Of course companies want young people to use their products, with the hope they will want to continue using them when they work in corporations. Apple has been doing it with Mac computers for decades by donating them to schools or selling them very cheaply. And the free community didn’t get left on the sidewalk. They got use of the app for all that time. Besides, encouraging people to learn an app so they want to continue using when the get a job in a corporation is actually a huge incentive for the company to keep providing the free version, something Autodesk has emphasized again & again.

@Geit

They get stored in the cloud and when the service (web based CAD) is gone, everything is gone. If the company locks you out, everything is gone.

My models are not stored in the cloud at all. I export every model, in F3D and STEP formats, to my local server. I only work with the files on my server.

@Geit

Sure it rarely happens that you need to revisit a model, but it happens. The part you made broke and before reprinting your want to improve it. e.g. fix the weak point it broke this time or add a feature idea. This may not be possible if the software is not under your control. You cannot backup an old version of Fusion or a web application.

If it happens that Autodesk ends the free version of F360, I will simply switch to another app and, if the new app dosn’t know how to read F3D files, I will import the STEP versions and carry on. In the meantime, I didn’t have to put up with the growing pains of an Open Source app. Besides, I likely won’t live long enough to see the end of the F360 free version.

@Geit

Speaking of operation systems. I mainly use MorphOS (https://www.morphos.de), which I am also developing for. Linux and therefor CAD is only a byproduct dealed with VNC on my dual monitor MorphOS setup to “import” software currently not available for out operating system. On the bright side I can fix and enhance the entire system to my needs, while with Linux, Windows and Mac I have to take what I get.

Yeah, I have zero interest in developing an OS. I did that years ago.

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[Geit]

@Ender5r

No, it does not always fire back. And, no, F360 did not already fire back twice. The point being, it does what I need it to do. What Autodesk took away were things I wasn’t using anyway, which is what Autodesk actually said when they changed the license.
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Really? They wanted to remove the .step export, which is the only file format you can use to transfer/move to another CAD software, even so you will loose the feature tree.

They changed their mind after massive protest. I consider this a reason to leave immediately.

Also they locked away former free functions, so another indication that free is only free the way this company likes you to be. You may be lucky next time, but for sure this wasn´t the last change regarding the free license.

@Ender5r

Disagree. The number of abandoned open source projects is legion. In fact, I think open source is more vulnerable. The vast majority of projects are really developed & supported by only 1 person (or a very few people). Innevitably, that person gets tired of supporting the project, or things change in their life, and the project gets abandoned.

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Yes, there is abandoned software, but you can take it and make it work or fix stuff. Anyone can do that. FreeCAD for example has multiple developers and it is unlikely they stop developing soon. It would be nice, to have a company paying these people. Last I heard is that Realthunder would take a payed job,

Granted: Open source works best when there is a company behind it like we have seen with Cura and Prusa Slicer. The opposite was there, too. A company which did nothing on Simplify3D for 5+ years and now returns. You probably have to pay for the update, which even requires you to be online while using it. People handled this slicer as abandoned already. On the other side if Cura or Prusa Slicer get abendoned by the company the already community takes over. After this I don´t see a future for a payed slicer, especially after that stunt. Also other slicers became superior during the last years and S3D needs to prove that there is a reason for it to exist and, even more important, to pay for it.

Also a good point is that abandoned close source is dead. If e.g. a bug or changed OS feature won´t work on Win11 or Win12, the abandoned close source software is getting a real pain in the ass. You need to setup emulation/old setups to run the old software, while with open source software someone will fix the issue and you can use it like before.

@Ender5r

And I wouldn’t call it blackmail. Companies (anyone really) has the right to change their program and/or terms of service. Customers are then entitled to accept or reject those changes.

But it is. They said it would be free forever. And now people need to invest a huge amount of money, because they removed features, these people need. You may not, but other are. Everyone should see this change in service as a warning shot. They are using free public license to improve their software. To have free testers. And then they say. Only within the yearly licence or $600. People get lured into there eco system and then get locked in. By moving stuff behind a paywal or, just like they tried, by removing more and more export features.

@Ender5r

My models are not stored in the cloud at all. I export every model, in F3D and STEP formats, to my local server. I only work with the files on my server. I will import the STEP versions and carry on.

Exactly. The F3d is limited to Fusion360 and you can only export STEP, because the company changed their mind due to the official shit storm. The F3d format is useless outside the world of Fusion360.

Without the outrage you would not carry on, because your only choice would be to recreate your models in a different CAD software or stick with F3D.

@Ender5r

Besides, I likely won’t live long enough to see the end of the F360 free version.

We talk again, when they move functions you use behind a pay wall.

[Ender5r]

@"Geit

Really? They wanted to remove the .step export, which is the only file format you can use to transfer/move to another CAD software, even so you will loose the feature tree.

They changed their mind after massive protest. I consider this a reason to leave immediately.

But that’s the point – they didn’t remove the feature. The community objected, and they listened.

[quote=“Geit,post:22,topic:3919”]
Also they locked away former free functions, so another indication that free is only free the way this company likes you to be. You may be lucky next time, but for sure this wasn´t the last change regarding the free license./

Of course free is the way Autodesk wants it to be. But, if they make it so nobody wants to use Fusion, they’re hurting themselves.

@Geit

Yes, there is abandoned software, but you can take it and make it work or fix stuff. Anyone can do that. FreeCAD for example has multiple developers and it is unlikely they stop developing soon. It would be nice, to have a company paying these people. Last I heard is that Realthunder would take a payed job,
This is a contradiction. Companies have to make money – have to. If they support an Open Source project, it is necessary for that project to provide the company some financial benefit. There is no other option. So far, the best way to do that has been to provide a feature limited version of a program free, with more features available for a cost.

[QUOTE=Geit;n16549]Granted: Open source works best when there is a company behind it like we have seen with Cura and Prusa Slicer. The opposite was there, too. A company which did nothing on Simplify3D for 5+ years and now returns. You probably have to pay for the update, which even requires you to be online while using it. People handled this slicer as abandoned already. On the other side if Cura or Prusa Slicer get abendoned by the company the already community takes over. After this I don´t see a future for a payed slicer, especially after that stunt. Also other slicers became superior during the last years and S3D needs to prove that there is a reason for it to exist and, even more important, to pay for it.

I suspect there is no future for paid slicers, with one possible exception. If, somehow, non-planar printing becomes a real thing, I could see the slicer algorithms getting patented, only available to paying customers. I also suspect that there is really nothing S3D can bring to the table at this point that would make worth paying for it.

@Geit

Also a good point is that abandoned close source is dead. If e.g. a bug or changed OS feature won´t work on Win11 or Win12, the abandoned close source software is getting a real pain in the ass. You need to setup emulation/old setups to run the old software, while with open source software someone will fix the issue and you can use it like before.

I don’t consider old software are major issue. People usually just want to run it for kicks, not anything serious. Any programs that are really in demand do get updated to remain compatible.

@Geit

But it is. They said it would be free forever. And now people need to invest a huge amount of money, because they removed features, these people need. You may not, but other are. Everyone should see this change in service as a warning shot. They are using free public license to improve their software. To have free testers. And then they say. Only within the yearly licence or $600. People get lured into there eco system and then get locked in. By moving stuff behind a paywal or, just like they tried, by removing more and more export features.

It is free. They never said the free version would remain exactly the same forever. Nothing is forever. The only constant is change. The people who are using the more advanced features; are they making money from using it? I gather that was one of the main reasons for changing the license – people were cheating. They were taking a not-for-profit program and using it to make models for sale. So, Autodesk said, “Fine, if you won’t abide by the original agreement, here is a more limited free version of the program. You can make money from it, up to $100,000/yr. After that you have to buy a license and, oh, by the way you will also get a bunch of other features as well.” I do not object to this. In fact, I think it really supports the Open Source model. Open Source does not mean free. It never has. People just keep trying to make it mean that.

@Geit

Exactly. The F3d is limited to Fusion360 and you can only export STEP, because the company changed their mind due to the official shit storm. The F3d format is useless outside the world of Fusion360.

Without the outrage you would not carry on, because your only choice would be to recreate your models in a different CAD software or stick with F3D.

But that is the point: people expressed their concerns, and the company listened. It is not in the company’s interest to alienate all the users of the free version.

@Geit

We talk again, when they move functions you use behind a pay wall.

There’s nothing to talk about. If they do that I will simply move on. Perhaps, by that point, FreeCAD will have straightened out its major issues and become something I can use. Or, maybe, I will use some program like OnShape.

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